tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9009004.post5603787862046625625..comments2023-10-17T03:19:48.859-07:00Comments on A Liberal Defence of Israel: Myths and Historical FactDenishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05674063273157934670noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9009004.post-73882159019566383582008-11-08T05:36:00.000-08:002008-11-08T05:36:00.000-08:00Dear Bonnie,Oh dear, you seem quite fixed in your ...Dear Bonnie,<BR/><BR/>Oh dear, you seem quite fixed in your views. You write: 'I know Palestine quite well. I know the Arabs, their history, their religion. You are either brainwashed or a liar.' It's good that you've visited 'Palestine' and that you know the Arabs etc. But to conclude that I, when I disagree with you, and either brainwashed or a liar is stretching things too far. I have an MA and PhD in Persian, Arabic, and Islamic History, and I have taught Arabic and Islamic Studies at university level. I have written academic books in this field and contributed to academic journals and major encyclopedias like the Encyclopedia of Islam. I know what I'm talking about, and, I suspect, much more than you do.<BR/><BR/>You say 'Zionism is the enemy of the world'. But Zionism is simply nothing more nor less than an aspiration to Jewish nationalism, based on the very rational grounds that the most persecuted of people (and very ill-treated in the Muslim world, by the way), the Jews, have as much right to a national home as anyone else. How does that make them 'the enemy of the world'? Are Irish nationalists 'the enemy of the world'? Are Muslim nationalists who want to reclaim Kashmir for Pakistan 'the enemy of the world'? You need to think harder, be less emotional, less propagandized.<BR/><BR/>You say that 'Neither Hamas nor Hezbolla, nor any Muslim group has an agenda to kill Jews'. Please read their charters and other documents, listen to speeches by their leaders and their clerics, watch Palestinian Television, learn what these people are about. They have defined jihad as the only way to an absolute Palestinian state, they have explicitly rejected peace conferences, negotiations, and compromise as worthless. If you don't read their own words (and, clearly, you cannot have done so), you have no right to make sweeping statements, attributing to them views they simply do not hold. <BR/><BR/>You say 'It's in the Islaimic religion that Jews and Christians are 'People of the Book'. That's rather vague. Certainly, they are known as the People of the Book (Ahl al-Kitab), but that only takes us so far. In the later sections of the Qur'an, they are regularly cursed. Later Islamic law lays down the rules for how they are to be treated, and, believe me, none of it is nice. If a religious state were to be established in 'Palestine', these laws would be laid down. Any surviving Jews who had survived the jihad would be subjected to intolerable restrictions that would be a disgrace in any democratic state.<BR/><BR/>You need to do a lot of reading, from a range of sources. What you are currently spouting is unreliable pro-Palestinian propaganda. Peace has never been the Arab option. The Arabs started the war in 1948 and predicted there would be slaughter on a par with Ganghis Khan, they started the wars of 1967, 1973 and 2006. That is all well-established historical fact. There's no point is arguing with it.<BR/><BR/>Given that your peaceful Palestinians have a bloodthirsty history, given that their charters reject peace-making, given that there is a warlike side to Islam, given that Hizbullah and Hamas have been building up huge arsenals in order to start a new war with Israel, given that Ahmadinezhad has threatened many times to wipe Israel out — don't you think the Israelis have every reason to feel afraid of a one-state solution. Israel was created as a haven for a people who had been massacred throughout history and had lost 6 million: what sort of haven would it be if 'Palestine' was ruled by people who have threatened to kill all the Jews (al-Yahud, seldom al-Isra'iliyun)? <BR/><BR/>Please think about all this. If, 60 years ago, the Arabs had accepted Israel instead of fighting an 'all-out' war against her, there would now be a prosperous and dynamic Palestine side by side with a prosperous and dynamic Israel. The reality is a mess, and the Palestinians got themselves into it and are still getting themselves into it. A people whose slogan is 'we love death more than they love life' is never going to end its fascination with violence and its inevitable descent into anarchy and poverty.Denishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05674063273157934670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9009004.post-50643979718432135852008-10-22T15:01:00.000-07:002008-10-22T15:01:00.000-07:00Bonnie, I would like to say you're right, but my c...Bonnie, I would like to say you're right, but my conscience won't let me. The one-state solution would be literal suicide for the Jews of Israel. 'No one wants to kill Jews' is the most naive statement I've ever read. I'm sorry, but it is. You have obviously never visited the Middle East or immersed yourself in Arab or Muslim material on this. It is commonplace to hear or read calls for the slaughter of Jews. Hamas's covenant commits them to that. So does Hizbullah's. And the truth is that Palestinians have been killing Jews since the 1920s and before. If you want to see real peace in the Middle East, then start with the 2-state solution. Think of this like Northern Ireland. I was brought up there. Inter-community violence is still serious. Imagine millions of Palestinians pouring into Israel and ask how long it would be before there was another war, perhaps a war without limits. I'm not sure what you mean by the Gandhi stand. India and Pakistan had to become separate states. Millions of Hindus went south, millions of Muslims went north, and a lot of people were killed. Try merging them again today and you'll see slaughter on a massive scale. Is that what you want?<BR/><BR/>DenisDenishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05674063273157934670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9009004.post-55384673448950639992008-10-22T14:42:00.000-07:002008-10-22T14:42:00.000-07:00The palestinian (Muslim, Christian and Jew) reject...The palestinian (Muslim, Christian and Jew) rejection is and always was the European Jewish quest for sovereignty on their land. All the propaganda in the world does not change the reality. One palestine for all, that's the solution. No one wants to kill Jews as your propaganda suggests. The Jewish State should be eliminiated. Now cut out the bull and advocate for what is right. Take the Gandhi stand.<BR/><BR/>BonnieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com